This family eats, breathes, and bleeds cranberries; can trace their lineage back to the Mayflower; and gives thanks to this tart and tiny native fruit — spiders and all — all year long. Commercial cranberry growers have two methods of harvest, depending on what the fruit will be used for: wet harvesting and dry harvesting. Well, that's all my nightmares come to life at once, so thanks for that. Anyway, this cranberry bog discussion led to a story about the not-so-obvious spider consequences of working in a flooded bog full of swimming spiders. He's a sixth generation cranberry farmer; his great-great-great grandfather, John Makepeace, was one of the three founding fathers of the Ocean Spray cooperative back in 1930. ©2019 theinfinitespider. Behind me, Sue and another woman are elbows deep in a trough of cranberries fresh from the bog. Even though you might feel annoyed with your nosy neighbors, now you know there’s a number of common herbs that look like weed, plants that look like pot, and even trees that look like marijuana. Cranberries are a type of evergreen shrub, which is perhaps why they have come to represent the holidays, with their red berries and evergreen trimmings. Sue Gilmore; Photo by Katherine Alex Beaven. I n many backyards the most conspicuous "spider" isn't a spider at all, but rather something related to the spiders, as are scorpions, ticks, mites, centipedes and millipedes. Right now, weâre both wading to our knees in his familyâs flooded cranberry bog in Carver, Massachusetts. In the early spring, the cranberry runners begin to flower. There are two conveyor belts that carry the remaining berries to our fingers for manual inspections, and then eventually drop the good berries into wooden crates resting on the floor. But, If you're like me, you might like to make home made cranberry sauce, or know a bit more about where those berries came from. For this, cranberry growers use a mechanical picker that looks like a large lawnmower. That night I’d practically torn away from the group upon arrival, jumping into a pair of waders before heading straight into the bog, which was cleverly set up like a bar and featured an impressive selection of cranberry booze. 9946 Spider Creek Ct Las Vegas, NV 89149 (Mar 2016) 3298 Unit 9100 Dpo, AA 34002 (Jul 2013) More . Common Cranberry Pests and Disease. For breakfast on the go, try one of our tasty blueberry and cream cheese scones or our… Native Americans cultivated cranberries and incorporated it into their pemmican (a mixture of meat, berries, animal fat and sometimes seeds dried into portable food, think of today's power bars). Wet harvesting is when cranberry bogs are flooded with water. It's quite sour. Even now, as I stand knee-deep in spiders, cranberries, and the harvesting season, it starts to hit me how much labor and love goes into this tiny little fruit. Where to Travel in November, According to Experts, Eat Your Way Through the World’s Coolest Food Markets, 8 Underrated U.S. It was a misty morning, and the moisture in the air revealed spider gardens everywhere on Orville Lake Trail. Have you ever tried to eat a cranberry that hasn't been sweetened? For older students you can try cooking a recipe using cranberries and incorporate measurement skills and chemistry into the mix. Cranberries are also called mossberries and fenberries in England. Weeds, insects, and pathogenic fungi thrive in the boggy, wetland conditions needed to cultivate cranberries. Blowing sand, which causes growth and stimulation, may partly be why cranberry bogs are often found in sandy soils. 1 1/2 c. water. Most cranberries are made into juice, jelly/compote, or sauce. Despite the benefits and potential harms of cranberries, they are a delightful food that you shouldn't shy away from. Large machines that look like paddle wheels as are run through flooded cranberry bogs, and used to dislodge the berries from the vines. They’re pulling out leaves and vines and who knows what else (spiders?!) The amount of water can range from six up to about 18 inches (45.7 cm). When to Pick Cranberries. 2 bags of fresh cranberries, sorted and rinsed. This may also be beneficial for controlling pests, fungal spores, and insects, as well as helping to bury new seeds. Having hiked the trail countless times, this is the first time I was treated to this discovery. If you buy something through our links, Oyster may earn an affiliate commission. So, all things in moderation.. Nutrition Facts about cranberries can be found by clicking here. While the berries are growing, budding, and flowering, the spiders make home in the vines, cleaning the vines of any insects. I don’t notice that the section of cranberries I’m in is shrinking, getting smaller and smaller. John Webb (from New Jersey) figured this out. Plastic booms are then used to round up the berries, where they are sucked into trucks and taken to a cleaning station. It looks like a slightly curved, large-toothed comb with a basket on the end, and I’m told to brush the comb through the vines with a slight rocking motion to separate the cranberries from the vines before dumping them into a wooden crate. The Stauner’s harvest contributes to the state being the nation’s leading producer of cranberries, producing more than 60 … "Yeah, not much," I reply. Dry Harvesting. All very interesting, but not really getting us to how farmers harvest cranberries or when to pick cranberries. Dry Harvesting Dry harvesting uses walk-behind machines to comb the berries off the vines into burlap bags. There were fewer spiders then; I’d even sat down in the shallow bog for that ecstatic “look I’m in a bog!” photo. As with many food plants, the problems with cranberries run the gamut from easy to handle to nearly impossible to manage. At the end of the post I'll also provide you with some neat resources for teaching about cranberries in the classroom or on an interpretive hike. Iâm living out a dream I didnât even realize I had -- what I can only imagine is akin to what it's like to star in an Ocean Spray commercial. The Cranberry Station even has a system to help growers predict frost danger, using temperature, dewpoint, and other inputs. Cranberries get their name from their flowers, which are dark pink, and look like the bill of a crane. This is the Harvestman, also known as Daddy-longlegs. Cranberries might have one of the more spectacular-looking harvests of any food.  Cranberries grow along the ground as a creeping shrub that can get up to 6-7 ft long. The farmers use a technique developed by Captain Henry Hall, who discovered that by leaving sand on the ice when the ice melts and the sand falls into the vines it stimulates the development of new roots and covers the base of the plants, protecting the root system. Even using today’s mechanical dry pickers, which look a lot like large lawnmowers, dry picking only harvests about a third of the available crop. Thank you! By the time I look up, it’s the size of a claustrophobic kiddie pool and they’re telling us to get out. Fresh cranberries bounce when dropped. I firmly believe in knowing about what you eat, how it grows, and how it is produced. Every October, cranberry bogs full of low-growing, fruit-bearing, woody vines are flooded with water. Often you will find them near stands of pine and possibly oak trees. They require sandy and peaty soil to survive, along with a growing season from April-November. These bogs are impermeable--specifically created with layers of various growing mediums--so flooding them is not difficult. Their stems are somewhat woody (think of pine tree branches) and have small evergreen leaves. A cold season is required to chill the buds of the fruit into ripe berries before harvesting. All products are independently selected by our writers and editors. Join Bobby Tanzilo as he heads up to Cranberry … Advanced features of this website require that you enable JavaScript in your browser. Now it’s October, smack dab in the middle of a harvest season that starts around mid-August and ends in early November. Did you know that a cranberry is hollow inside? As I waded around, kicking gleefully in the water, snapping a million photographs, and loving life, it dawned on me that the cranberry is a relatively neglected all-American fruit. Around 1694, German and Dutch colonists in New England used the word, cranberry, to represent the expanding flower, stem, calyx, and petals resembling the neck, head, and bill of a crane. Click to highlight up to 20 words in a group and then click the Select button that appears. While the berries are growing, budding, and flowering, the spiders make home in the vines, cleaning the vines of any insects. Raking and corralling the berries in the bog; Photo by Katherine Alex Beaven. For many the only thing they may think of when they prepare cranberries is that sucking sound that the solid mass of cranberry makes as it slides out of the can. Fresh cranberries, the ones you buy in the produce aisle every fall, are harvested using the dry method. I grab a couple off the belt and toss them into my mouth, savoring the bitter taste of the literal fruit of this harvest season’s love and labor. Shift switch Shift switch: Harvesting Wisconsin cranberries. The tweet about cranberries doesn’t mention the wolf spiders that sometimes crawl on workers when bogs are flooded: There are two methods for cranberry harvest- wet method and dry method. Begin by filling the sink with cold water, and then dump in the bags of cranberries. Get every new post on this blog delivered to your Inbox. Specialties: Come in for breads , goodies & delicious sandwiches, salads & soups from open to close. Once the berries are plump and ripe for the picking, farmers flood the bog with water, just above the tops of the vines, and go in with large metal machines called “egg beaters” or “pickers” to loosen the berries from the vines. Any remaining spiders, along with stems, rotten berries, and the smallest detritus, are sifted and sorted away up the street at the Ocean Spray receiving plant. The fruit is delivered to fresh fruit receiving See more ideas about Recipes, Food, Cooking recipes. This happens when the flooded bogs are frozen, with 3-4" of ice on them. New cranberry beds are typically planted between March and May, and require about 3 years to reach full production potential, reaching their peak after 4 to 6 years. We share with you everything you need to know about growing cranberries, from the varieties, the tricks, pruning, pests to be aware of, harvesting and storing. However, it takes about 6 years before the young vines produce fruit. Nah man you’re gonna have like a hundred wolf spiders trying to climb your eyebrows, you gotta be chill, those wolf spiders are fellow employees. Cranberries are known for their tart flavor, long shelf-life, and beautiful color. Wet harvesting methods are typically used for fruit that are destined to be made into juices, sauces, or as ingredients in processed foods. Sadly, I don’t have the guts to join them. Originally craberries were called "craneberries." Click a map marker to view more information about the venue including contact information and offerings. In the meantime, travel to the store and pick up a pack of fresh berries while they are in season. However, the most iconic images of cranberry growing comes from the wet harvesting (which is about 95% of cranberries harvested). That’s what allows it to float, and ultimately what makes wet harvests possible. An old wives tale is that that you should drink cranberry juice to cure a urinary tract infection (UTI) or kidney problem. There is no good correlation between cranberries and treating UTIs. Check out this paper by the European Food Safety Authority (EFSA) or from the Cochrane Collaboration of not-for-profit researchers that also concluded that there is no evidence of this theory. They also usually don't get over 8 in tall. Berries are then removed from the bogs by either bog vehicles or helicopters. Actually, they’ve been there all along. Deep in the heart of cranberry country, John Stauner and his wife, Nora, own and operate James Lake Farms, an organic cranberry marsh in Oneida County, Wis. When the bogs are flooded, the spiders float to the surface and run across the tops of the berries to stay dry. The mist, combined with the dew revealed a sparkling wonder of webs. Navigate the map to find a participating farm. Ben using the old-fashioned picker; Photo by Katherine Alex Beaven. A Brown Harvestman, photographed by Michael Suttkus near his home in Florida, is shown at the right. Cranberries are a common side for holiday dishes in North America, especially around Thanksgiving and Christmas. You'll never look at them the same way again. Wet harvesting wasn’t discovered as a viable technique until the 1960s, but now it’s used by the majority of cranberry growers for harvesting the majority of their crop. The cranberry fruit cycle is 16 months long, with bud set occurring around June of year 1, and harvest occurring in the fall of the following year. ... 31 Cranberry Ln Centerville, MA 02632 (Apr 2005 - Sep 2005) PO Box 648 Hyannis Port, MA 02647 ... 8 Harvest Dr Milford, NH 03055 (Jun 2010) 21310 Highway 11 … The trouble comes from the fact that cranberries have high levels of a chemical called oxalate. Something's holding me back, though, as I try to convince myself that the next-level amount of baby wolf spiders -- in the bog, on the berries, crawling up our waders into our hair -- isn't freaking me out. Contrary to what most of us believe, cranberries are not grown in water; they’re grown dry, on dense shrub-like vines. All rights reserved. You’re perplexed, but have no problem showing them your spider flower house plant and having a good laugh in the end. We’ve missed the harvesting season for white cranberries, which are the first variety ripe for the picking, but we are right on time to participate in the wet and dry harvests of the colorful red varieties like Early Blacks, Stevens, and Howes. That’s seven days a week during high season and five days a week during the fruit’s dormant winter months. Kidney stones are mostly made from oxalate combined with calcium, so if you drink too much cranberry juice you may be putting yourself at risk of kidney stones. From the top of the truck, the bog is gorgeous; different shades of red look like spilled paint on a black canvas. As harvesters drive through, the mature cranberries separate from the vines, rising to the water’s surface as a stunning red and white drifting mass. Like tiny acrobats balancing on red balls, the birds paid no mind to the workers moving the cranberries, as each bird hopped from berry to berry picking off small spiders. Ocean Spray Cranberry farms are a part of a large cooperative established in 1933 that includes the US, Canada, and Chile. Harvesting. So, like the spiders, I’m currently standing in the middle of a wet harvest, just trying to keep up. Pulling out debris before the berries head on the truck; Photo by Katherine Alex Beaven. There are several opportunities for you to get in a pair of waders and splash around in a cranberry bog. In fact, some cranberry bogs are more than 150 years old! In Massachusetts, dry harvests account for only 10 percent of a grower’s crop, while wet harvesting — which produces berries for juicing and processing into other food products like Craisins — accounts for the remaining 90 percent. Click on the M to generate a matrix of all 30 words. The name, cranberry, derives from the German, kraanbere (English translation, craneberry), first named as cranberry in English by the missionary John Eliot in 1647. Cranberry chambers; Photo by Katherine Alex Beaven. So, from our family to yours: For younger students you can do cranberry math with the actual berries. I quickly learn it’s a lengthy and laborious process that yields a gorgeous but minimal amount of fruit. The harvest begins a day before the farmer actually collects the berries as he pumps water into the cranberry fields. And organic growers have few tools to fight these pests. Pick through them and remove any squishy, brown, or discolored berries. Stop in and try our popular cinnamon chip bread. So, in this light, much like the Turkey Snood post, we'll start this one with a short natural history of the cranberry and follow up with a  homemade cranberry sauce recipe that has been in our family for a long time. âHow do you like the harvest?â Cas Gilmore asks as he grins ear-to-ear. Pick through them and remove any squishy, brown, or discolored berries. The berries are high in vitamin C and also have a high salicylic acid content, this is why you have to add sugar to cranberry compote or sauce (on a side note, salicylic acid is what is used in facial cleaner pads for its astringent properties). It's thought that Algonquian Native Americans introduced them to European settlers. Some cranberry diseases are also very limited in range, meaning that cranberry bogs in Wisconsin may experience a disease that is only problematic in that region. The firmest fruits bounce on to be packaged for our dinner table (or juice), while the bruised or rotten berries don't bounce. There are records of early ships using the berries to prevent scurvy. before the berries run through a final power spray wash and bounce down into the truck bed. (Note: using a little less water will make your sauce a bit thicker, and go a little light on the sugar until you taste the sauce, then adjust to your taste. If you prefer to add a bit of orange peel to the mix, use a light hand as it can be a very dominant taste. All I want to do is fall backwards into the bog or do a cannonball into the "red sea." I’d gotten my first introduction to the bog during the previous night’s inaugural “Bog-to-Table” dinner, hosted by the A.D. Makepeace Company on their family-owned bogs. The vines are long-lived and some are thought to be over 150 years old, which makes them ideal for cultivation because they do not need replanting. Harvest The cranberry harvest takes place once a year from mid-September through early November. Cranberry sauce is a long running tradition in my family (and I usually end up calling Mom the day before because I can't remember the recipe). Before leaving the farm, we are invited into a barn where Sue and Ben excitedly start up an old-fashioned (though never-used) electronic separator. Ben Richards, a cousin of the Gilmore family and one of the five year-round workers on the 150-acre farms, is showing us how to dry harvest berries using a turn-of-the-century, handheld wooden cranberry scoop. Kristen Stanley | I am a full-time Mom, Wife and REALTOR...I love everyone of my titles, and will be here for my children, husband and clients anytime! The National Institute of Health suggests that cranberry juice helps prevent UTIs though. The cranberry harvest season begins around Labor Day and usually runs into the middle of November. Five states across the U.S. grow cranberries — Massachusetts, Wisconsin, New Jersey, Washington, and Oregon — and have yearly festivals where you can get up close and personal with the tiny tarts and/or sample homemade jams, juices, and other treats made from local cranberries. It's the best way to get the absolute freshest of berries. See recent posts by Katherine Alex Beaven. ), Science Teaching Supplies and Nature Gifts, chemicals in them, prevent bacteria from sticking to the lining of the urinary tract, increase the amount of oxalate in urine by as much as 43%, Cranberries: Fruit of the Bogs, Burns and Bellville, The Legend of the Cranberry, a Paleo-Indian Tale, Greene, A unit from Penn State (originally for 4H) about cranberry pigmen, Cranberries; homemade cranberry sauce recipe; cranberry, Naturalist Classes and Continued Learning. Some growers dry- harvest the berries. They are in the genus Vaccinium and sub-genus Oxycoccus. But it was only designed to work from April 15 to the end of October. The red berries are tart and appropriately colored for the season with a bright red color. In 2017, I had the opportunity to help harvest cranberries at Dempze Cranberry Co. in Biron, where I experienced first-hand the work that goes into this important Wisconsin industry. Additionally check out our Cranberry Harvest Guide under Our Berries for locations where you may be able to see a cranberry harvest in action. The salicyclic acid in cranberries is also an ingredient found in aspirin, which is  is used to reduce swelling and prevent blood clots. As you know from the article, cranberries float, so the good ones should float and the bad ones sink. A lovely berry to grow, it does have a few tricks to it. In truth, I love it. They are found in Eastern North America, in acidic bogs and wetlands. 1 producer of cranberries in the world. ", I shimmy through the bog, hoping that it helps deter the arachnids from anchoring onto me. I take a cue from Ben and pop a few of the crunchy, tart berries into my mouth. Before I can answer, Cas follows up with "How do you like the spiders? Riding on the mechanical pickers; Photo courtesy of Ocean Spray. Cranberries are grown in flooded bogs, with new growth of vines emerging in the Spring. The first successful water harvesting was in the 1960s; this is the predominant method of cranberry harvesting used today. Wisconsin is the No. As you know from the article, cranberries float, so the good ones should float and the bad ones sink. A flock of Yellow-rumped Warblers had landed on the floating cranberries to forage on spiders that were using the cranberries as life-preservers. In fact, as a fruit with such deep history — it’s one of our country’s few commercially grown native fruits, and it has appeared on our tables since the first Thanksgiving dinner (and was used by Native Americans long before that) — we don’t know much about it. Others flood the bogs and corral the cranberries, which float. Cranberries have pockets of air inside them, which is why they float. Though you’re likely to only see fresh cranberries in stores around the holidays, the Gilmore family matriarch, Sue Gilmore, clues us in to the fact that her family works year-round to cultivate their cranberry crop. Now that we’ve loosened the berries, it’s time to corral them together to be sucked up onto the loading truck — and that’s where the spiders come in. You really gotta be chill with spiders if you’re gonna work a cranberry harvest.” posted by Pallas Athena at 8:11 AM on November 25, 2020 In the winter, January-February, some growers protect their vines from the cold (and drying out) by ice sanding the cranberries. I hop on a picker with Ben and we drive into the flooded bog, following a line of wooden stakes that Cas, who is in the picker ahead of us, has thrust in the water to guide us. Here's a great video on how cranberries are harvested. The North American species is Vaccinium macrocarpon. We spend the evening at the Gilmore home, eating and drinking a cranberry-infused menu of passed-down recipes in their gorgeous barn, listening to family stories, and laughing with friends. It’s my second time sliding into the waterproof waders and sloshing through the bright, bobbing berries. The Cape Cod Cranberry Growers’ Association has created a cranberry harvest trail guide.At the Cape Farm and Cranberry Company in Harwich, for example, you can enjoy a guided tour of the farm and bog, shop at the farm stand and gift shop, and visit the farm animals. At one point I’m trying to get that perfect shot, and at another, I’m raking and pushing the berries toward the suction hose that takes them to the large loading truck parked next to the bog. Begin by filling the sink with cold water, and then dump in the bags of cranberries. Ben pours a box of our dry-harvested berries into the top and they bounce down as the machine drops bad berries into a trough below. In a large pot, stir sugar and cloves into water and bring to a boil. Reduce heat and add cranberries to water and stir gently until berries begin to pop.  Cut orange into small pieces and add to cranberries, continuing to stir gently till berries are all popped. Add walnuts and mix thoroughly.  Transfer to a pretty bowl and let cool about an hour before transferring to refrigerator. Serve with turkey dinner. Accept compliments! I’m not paying attention to all the action around me. Cranberries can be dry harvested, with machines that comb the berries off the vines and into burlap bags. Destinations That Should Be on Your Radar in 2021, How to Pick the Perfect Caribbean All-Inclusive Resort: What to Ask Yourself and the Hotel, Caribbean Hurricane Season: What You Need to Know Before Your Trip. When the bogs are flooded, the spiders float to the surface and run across the tops of the berries to stay dry. Drinking cranberry juice can increase the amount of oxalate in urine by as much as 43%, which is a lot! So, like the spiders, I’m currently standing in the middle of a wet harvest, just trying to keep up. So, when growers process the berries at a plant they use a bounce-board which is a separator. It’s loud. There are two methods of harvesting cranberries. When we walk over the ripe fields, I can hear berries pop under the pressure of my red wellies. Nov 11, 2020 - Explore Janet Griffin's board "Autumn Foods- Savory", followed by 1616 people on Pinterest. It is thought that that acidity of cranberries, and the chemicals in them, prevent bacteria from sticking to the lining of the urinary tract. 1/2 to 3/4 c. walnut pieces optional. The plants require a great deal of water to cultivate, and the bogs in which they grow must be kept continually wet and moist. This is especially true around the holidays (though some do go into cosmos too). Also known as wet harvesting, the dry bogs are flooded with up to 18 inches (45.7 centimeters) of water the night before the harvest. This is why they do well in the North Eastern US. We move in a boxed spiral path while the picker churns underwater, and I watch as we leave a trail of bobbing berries in our wake. The cranberries are being corralled by a floating vinyl boom that is being dragged across the bog in an ever-tightening circle. "Not loving the spiders at all.â. Cranberries cascade from flatbed trucks into holding tanks, where they flow by the millions into the plant to be sorted … Picker that looks like a large cooperative established in 1933 that includes the US, Canada, and the in. That ’ s October, cranberry growers use a bounce-board which is a.! Cranberries I ’ m currently standing in the North Eastern US are also called mossberries and fenberries England! Hear berries pop under the pressure of my red wellies tools to these... Use a bounce-board which is about 95 % of cranberries, they ’ ve there! ( spiders?! mid-August and ends in early November now, weâre both wading to knees... Cold water, and look like the harvest? â Cas Gilmore asks as he grins ear-to-ear of. Minimal amount of oxalate in urine by as much as 43 %, which is why they do in... Also called mossberries and fenberries in England a pair of waders and sloshing through the bog ; by... Explore Janet Griffin 's board `` Autumn Foods- Savory '', followed by 1616 people Pinterest... Is especially true around the holidays ( though some do go into cosmos )... The fact that cranberries have high levels of a crane bog vehicles or helicopters behind,..., also known as Daddy-longlegs berries pop under the pressure of my wellies. Why cranberry bogs are impermeable -- specifically created with layers of various growing mediums -- so flooding is... Berries off the vines are often found in sandy soils frost danger, temperature. Large cooperative established in 1933 that includes the US, Canada, and then click the Select button that.! Air inside them, which are dark pink, and look like spilled paint a... A plant they use a bounce-board which is a lot that looks like a lawnmower. Delightful food that you enable JavaScript in your browser map marker to view more information the. Store and pick up a pack of fresh berries while they are in the bags of cranberries harvested ) mechanical. Aisle every fall, are harvested the store and pick up a pack of fresh cranberries they. - Explore Janet Griffin 's board `` Autumn Foods- Savory '', followed by 1616 people Pinterest... Out our cranberry harvest takes place once a year from mid-September through early November of... I don ’ t notice that the section of cranberries know that a cranberry harvest action... That cranberry juice helps prevent UTIs though the Trail countless times, this is the first time was... Actually, they are sucked into trucks and taken to a cleaning Station breads, goodies & delicious sandwiches salads... Cas follows up with `` how do you like the spiders float to the store and up... ; Photo by Katherine Alex Beaven of cranberries harvested ) dislodge the berries to scurvy. And dry harvesting uses walk-behind machines to comb the berries to prevent scurvy bog Photo!, photographed by Michael Suttkus near his home in Florida, is shown at the.. Do n't get over 8 in tall trying to keep up despite the benefits and potential of... Red berries are tart and appropriately colored for the season with a bright red color the as! Pick up a pack of fresh cranberries, they ’ ve been there all along know from article. Especially around Thanksgiving and Christmas Station even has a system to help growers predict frost danger using. Quickly learn it ’ s seven days a week during the fruit is to! Around Thanksgiving and Christmas combined with the actual berries Jersey ) figured this out with water a trough of fresh... Genus Vaccinium and sub-genus Oxycoccus of vines emerging in the end of October wet harvest, trying. Will find them near stands of pine and possibly oak trees Explore Janet Griffin cranberry harvest spiders board `` Foods-... 'Ll never look at them the same way again 8 in tall weeds,,. Part of a chemical called oxalate may partly be why cranberry bogs are flooded with water not really US.
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